As part of the War Diary project, we ask Ukrainian citizens how they perceive and experience the terrible, but largely decisive for our future, events of the war. These are students from different universities, different parts of Ukraine, teachers, historians, who since the beginning of the war have been involved in various NGOs, volunteer movements, helping our military, civilians, etc. Ukrainians who have an active public position, work in the field of education, journalism, are public figures. Today, we asked Yulia Nesterenko to share her story with us. She’s a Candidate of Philological Sciences, editor, writer, promoter of education. Ms. Yulia currently lives in Canada, and how are things with refugees there, what is the government’s policy towards Ukrainians? How she experienced the events of the war starting on February 24th and what kind of life she has today? Read more in our interview below.
Yulia Nesterenko, photo from her Facebook
This war, which we continue to live with, has been going on for more than 10 months, thousands of missiles, millions of destroyed lives. Can you please remember where you were on February 24, 2022, and how did you perceive the terrible events of that day?
That day I woke up, as usual, at 4 am. Yes, I heard the explosions, but I did not have time to react to them, because my relatives started calling one by one. I even had to turn off the phone for a while to recover and calmly perceive reality. I hastily packed a backpack, the same one with which I left Luhansk in 2014, and prepared a supply of water and mechanically taped the windows in case of a blast wave. The problem was that I was in a dangerous geolocation. On the first day, there was no thought of leaving Kyiv. However, when in the morning at dawn on February 26, I saw a combat vehicle under my house, saw red-hot shells flying out of it, I decided to move to safer areas to my closest relatives. Eight years ago, my family got basically scattered all over Ukraine because of Russia’s invasion. So there was a place to go. However, over time it became clear that it was better to temporarily go to Poland.
Many, especially from the Western media, talked about the inevitability of war. It was only a matter of time, in fact, that was the impression from their stories. Did you share this opinion then?
This is the case when the desired and the real creates the effect of soft gray noise in the mind. That is, on the one hand, you clearly see that the war will definitely happen. And many factors point to this. On the other hand, you emotionally reject a bad thought, because you want to believe in a cloudless sky and a happy ending. This is a common defensive reaction. But I have already experienced something similar in 2014. However, then the invasion seemed a bit slower, because all the events were sort of visible happening in front of our eyes. This time, our government has hidden a massive layer of information from us. This is a great shame.
As far as I know, you are now in Canada, can you tell us how you got there? Perhaps certain organizations helped you, or it was with the assistance of friends, acquaintances?
I am very grateful to the Government of Canada for the CUAET program (Canada-Ukraine Authorization for Emergency Travel – ed.). This is neither official refugee nor European temporary protection. This program provides an opportunity to enter Canada quickly and gives the right to work there for three years. The Government of Canada has provided additional financial assistance, health insurance, opened a lot of programs for the adaptation of newly arrived Ukrainians. And all this is really affordable. I applied for a visa in Poland, and I was not charged a single penny. Canada is a country for those who like to work hard. And to live in a country where there is no corruption is an extraordinary happiness that should be appreciated. Because when I hear, for example, that a woman, trying to take her children out of the rocket attacks, applies for the CUAET program in Kyiv, and they demand money from her, it makes me very angry. Canada has opened its doors to everyone.
However, you should not look for “freebies” here. When I received my visa, I did not wait for special charters that took Ukrainians from Poland to Canada, but got there on my own. I went by bus, two cars, three planes. And I did not know at all what to expect. The first shock was when my plane had not yet landed in Canada. I looked down from the window and realized that this is a completely different, new reality for me.
What difficulties did you face as a refugee when you moved? How easy/difficult was it to adapt to life in a new country, how much did Canadian legislation and society contribute to this?
I became a refugee back in 2014, when I hugged my father for the last time and left Luhansk for Kyiv in mid-May. It was supposed to be a trip for five days, but it turned out to last for years. It was extremely difficult then. Having had enough of pro-Russian propaganda about evil people from Donbas, Ukrainians who had not yet known the war resorted to outright harassment of those who had already lost their homes, loved ones, their well-fed lives. And I know many terrible stories of survival of Luhansk people in their own country. They basically work for 10–12 hours a day and without days off, life without basic things, it’s inability to have the right to vote, etc. And even after fully fulfilling all obligations to the state, it was not always possible to receive meager financial assistance. I know cases where people sued, and only then they received resettlement.
In Canada, the laws work. In addition, Canadians themselves are very sympathetic and helpful. And Ukrainians in Canada do incredible things for those who have just arrived from Ukraine, for those who are defending our land today. Thanks to the help and support, it was not difficult for me to adapt basically to the new environment. Now I live in the province of Manitoba, in a small town, here you will meet very kind and positive people.
When I came to Winnipeg, the capital of Manitoba, I had a very interesting incident. I went into the shop of one Canadian of Ukrainian origin. He was helped that day by a boy, Dania, from Kharkiv. Dania had witnessed an attack with cluster bombs. His family had miraculously survived, but there was no more housing. He just hugged me after he saw me, and cried. No book or film can convey what a person experiences during the war. And it is extremely sad that almost all Ukrainian children had that experience.
Winnipeg, city in Canada
Do you have the opportunity to work remotely and continue teaching as you did before the war? Or is it impossible now?
Teaching, scientific work — it was the meaning of my life. Everyone who knows me from Luhansk understands how much I had to go through to be where I am today. It was the work that I lived for. Even Saturdays and Sundays were filled with a schedule of mandatory tasks. It seemed to me that it had to be so. But here in Canada I did not advertise my academic degree and instead I looked at everything with a fresh eye “from the outside”. And I was shocked. I really did not understand how hard the work I was doing actually was. I also frankly do not understand why Ukraine has such a negative attitude towards its scientific and scientific-pedagogical workers. It’s a bunch of absurd papers, meager salaries, at which a scientist can sometimes afford to live only in a dormitory. Europeans and Americans will not even believe in this.
Today I do not teach at any university. I have my own daily routine here. And my trip to Canada was very negatively evaluated by some members of the department. Unfortunately, our higher education system has a number of big problems. And the fact that now universities are being closed (merged) is quite sad.
And despite everything, I continue to do scientific work, because “the bird must sing”.
What are you doing now in the new country?
In the new country I work, learn the state language, continue my work. I am a humanitarian scientist, my laboratory is now my notebook. My day is scheduled down to one minute. Unfortunately, from time to time, Manitoba nature throws surprises. Then I pause.
We see from time to time how Ukrainian refugees abroad suffer from the same Russians whose brains are brainwashed with propaganda, and for whom there is no concept of “free Ukrainian, free Ukraine”. Have you faced similar situations, maybe you have friends, acquaintances who went through this?
Yes, I know several Russian families here. Some of them immediately spoke negatively about the war in our country. Others just avoid me. They are especially scared when I wear an embroidered shirt. By the way, in summer I saw embroidered shirts here much more often than in Kyiv.
Do you keep in touch with those who are now in Ukraine? How do you keep in touch with them?
Yes, I do. I communicate daily with those who stayed in Ukraine. I miss and worry a lot about them. I also help with the preparation of students for entrance exams for free. And I always respond when people contact me on professional issues. Who wants to learn, they will learn, no matter what.
I would also like to touch upon the topic of Canadian policy towards Ukrainians. Having lived for a certain period of time in a new environment, how would you describe the country’s policy towards Ukrainian refugees in general?
I am grateful to Canada. I understand perfectly well that I am in another country, but I do not feel completely alien here. I attend various seminars and trainings, which allows me to adapt better. Thanks to language courses from the Government of Manitoba, I have overcome barriers in communication. There are many programs for adaptation and retraining. Banks in Canada are also quite attentive to Ukrainians. Some things have been simplified for us, for example, we can exchange Ukrainian driving licenses for Canadian ones without passing additional exams.
And it should be noted that Canada is a federal country, that is, each province has its own laws and rules of life. I have been living in Manitoba all the time, I have never left.
In fact, Canadians understand our situation. They help us as much as possible. Sometimes local families agree to take us in for free. I was lucky. For a couple of months I lived in the house of one dear Mrs. Joyce. And she adapted me, supported me, explained the peculiarities of life in Canadian society.
But I want to warn you right away. Please, before coming here, get rid of myths about Canada in your head. Otherwise, it will be very difficult.
Do you like the way the topic of war is covered in the Canadian media? Do you talk about it, for example, with the locals, and if so, what do they say?
The Canadian media is mostly talking about the negative consequences for Europe and the world because of the war in Ukraine.
When I talk to ordinary Canadians, they speak with indignation about the situation in our country. They say they believe in the strength of Ukraine and will do everything to help us. In the town where I live, there are 46 different churches for a population of 25 thousand people. And believe me, they pray for peace and harmony in Ukraine.
There are a lot of volunteers here. And they are concerned about the fate of Ukrainians. I am very outraged that many of our people spread rumors that other countries have forgotten about us. They remember about us. They want to help us.
This event in Canada was dedicated to Ukraine, namely Independence Day (August 24, 2022), and Ms. Yulia was actively involved in organizing these pro-Ukrainian events together with many other Ukrainians
In Ukraine, we talk a lot in the media, at the home table about how to treat Russia as a neighboring country after the war. Many of our citizens have relatives and friends who live in Russia, and it is no secret that at least some of them support Putin’s actions and are in favor of the war.
How has your attitude towards Russia and its citizens changed after February 24? Do you consider all Russians responsible for this aggression, as well as the military that throws missiles at us? Do you communicate with Russians at all today?
My attitude towards Russia and Russians has not changed. It is the same as in 2014, as in 2008, as during the Orange Revolution, and even in the 90s. I remember the history of my family very well. My two great-grandmothers did not even live to see the Second World War. Both my grandmothers and my grandfather grew up as orphans.
And what we see today did not start in 2022 or in 2014. It started way back in the first decades of the XX century. These wars themselves have their origins in the first stages of the Red Terror. Ukraine must fight back. And I basically try to live without such unnecessary dialogues or discussions.
Not so long ago, NATO adopted a resolution on the establishment of an international tribunal to prosecute Russians who committed war crimes on the territory of Ukraine. A huge number of our children were simply deported to the territory of Russia, and we can only guess how their lives will develop and whether they will be reunited with their parents. Rape, murder of women and children, elderly people, deportation of children, the list goes on….
In your opinion, what should the Russian aggressor pay for all the crimes committed against the citizens of Ukraine?
As I have already said, the roots of this should be searched much deeper. And when talking about retribution, I have another question: When will there be retribution for the crimes and atrocities carried out against Ukrainians back in the XX century? We have a problem that must be eliminated forever. Otherwise, it will not stop. At the beginning of the XX century, there were 110 million Ukrainians. In 2013 – 38 million. Moreover, in the 80s we had a demographic explosion. How many of us Ukrainians, are on this planet now?
Yes, there must be responsibility for crimes. And yes, they (Russians) must pay. Those who supported crimes are complicit in these crimes. However, there are things that cannot be compensated with gold. A house can be rebuilt, but a human life cannot be returned. It is a shame. Therefore, the issue must be eliminated and taken care of. Especially today, the information space in Ukraine should be only pro-Ukrainian. Why? Because people are ready to do different things for the idea and it’s not always going to turn out well for our country.
Let’s look a little into the future. What kind of Ukraine do you envision after this war? Do you believe in great positive changes for our country, of course, with the support of European and American partners? How do you see your own future in a post-war Ukraine, do you want to continue working in the field of education?
Everything will depend on the wisdom of our President. Ukraine has quite a strong human resource. We are able to do everything quickly and efficiently. With enough support and the right revival strategies, Ukraine has good chances for to get back to where it was before the war. In addition, many Ukrainians abroad are now accumulating their strength and gaining new knowledge. I am not standing still, either. I hope to return to my work as soon as possible and go back to teaching and scientific research.
Ukraine can be rebuilt. The chances are great. The only question is how long this terrible war will last.
I have advice for everyone, who is thinking of leaving Ukraine and seeking asylum in another country. Escape is always difficult and exhausting in many ways. I ask you very much, do not go into a state of prolonged depression. Be sure to look for a job, even if you have the finances to live on for some time. Do not be afraid to break away from your old habits. And if you are offered courses, be sure to go to that school. Do not count only on social assistance.
“A bird sitting on a tree is never afraid of the branch breaking, because her trust is not on the branch but on its own wings”.
Tranlsator: Ivan Chepaykin
